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Its not just downtown that needs support...
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how's this for buying local?
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| before going out of state for a family reunion, i installed a fuel transfer tank and filled 'er up! in addition to 'buying local,' fuel is about 25-50 cents cheaper here than elsewhere.. | |
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my 2 cents, I'll spend where I want
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>>Anytime you spend money at a big box store, chain grocery, or any other chain you might be saving a few bucks but your money is going to support other communities and pay salaries of people who don't live here. << Is my money going to support other communities? Last I checked, all the people who worked at the Bozeman Walmart were local. That doesn't make sense. Too much of a blanket statement. I totally shop local when I can, but when all the local stores have a 5-10% mark-up, it makes it hard for us poor folk to afford those kind of things. I am not trying to be argumentative, just realistic. |
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RE: my 2 cents, I'll spend where I want
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Yes, the people who work there are local but that is just a small piece of the bigger picture. Walmart doesn't have their advertising, legal work, corporate offices, banking, insurance, or any other services done in this community. Where as local businesses usually do & that's how the multiplier effect of $1 to $5 works. I hope that makes my sentence make more sense. |
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RE: my 2 cents, I'll spend where I want
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Hey cowgirlmedic, don't kid yourself. I appreciate your sentiment about more expensive stuff at the local shops and having to tighten the money belt. Keep in mind that a teeny tiny fraction of your Walmart dollars support the local employees. I guess it keeps the box open and some folks employed as long as we all shop there. Come to think of it, that is the case for the local stores as well. Won't we all be sorry when the local shops start closing their doors just because we saved a dollar on a pair of foreign-made socks. |
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Shopping at a store supports the owners
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For example, I own several shares of those large parallelipeds on 19th. I own them directly, through mutual funds, and through my 401k. So when you shop at those stores, not only are you supporting yourself by spending less money on the same items, but you are actually supporting me (and other Bozeman savers), both today and in our eventual retirement. Things are not as simple as they appear. |
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me too!
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I didn't even think of that Skew. Good point. I also have mutual funds and sometimes forget that I have money invested in those big box stores too. Either way, I love to shop at the local stores, but sometimes affordability and accessability is just easier. |
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Big Box Stores don't contribute much to the community
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Yep, sure, if you buy from the big chain stores you often spend less money, and at the same time help the stockholders of those companies, some of whom live right here in Bozeman. But what do the big stores do to actually enhance the community? We have a charming and really nice downtown. It is a pleasure to sit out on the sidewalk and eat or just relax. Could you say the same about north 19th? A lot of the charm and be beauty of downtown is paid for by local businesses--either directly or through the Downtown Business Association. Speaking of the Downtown Business Association, it is that organization which pays for Music on Main. Ever hear of WalMart paying for some community event like that? Not to pick on WalMart, 'cause it does give a lot of money to some good charities, but the chain is really not LOCALLY involved. There are many incentives for local business to contribute to the community. But I can guarantee you that the companies which own and operate WalMart, Home Depot, Lowes, Target, Costco, and such do not really care at all about Bozeman. In stark contrast, the owners of local businesses have a vested interest in making their community better. |
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It's pretty complex
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| I agree that we need to make decisions that are good for our local economy. Let's not forget that every local business person is not entitled to success though. You need to be competitive and offer service or merchanidise that wins over the consumer in a free market system. It's a complex system to see where the money goes and what benefits are received. Many local business people spend their money outside of the community while they beg for other people to spend their money locally. They build vacation homes in other states. They buy products from foreign countries when they could find something within the United States (and sometimes within their local community). They put their money into public traded companies that don't operate here or may operate here and compete with another local business. There are a lot of people talking about how important it is that the downtown businesses are putting on "Music on Main", but they still have employees that they are compensating at the lowest levels they can, which is the same thing that the box stores are doing. I suspect that there are a lot of employees that are working in local businesses that would like to see that money put into retirement plans, wages, benefits, etc. instead of thrown into the wind for philanthropic ventures. It could be that we wouldn't need all the nonprofit groups here if the businesses would start to take care of their community through their employees compensation package. Again, it is not as simple as it appears. It is a free market, free enterprise system that determines how we spend our money and where it goes after that. As far as companies like Home Depot not contributing to the local community I suggest that you research Arthur Blank. He lives here and was a founder of Home Depot. The money that he has invested in the community doesn't say Home Depot on it, but that's where it came from. While we're on the topic... Why does anyone have to give a penny of their money as a donation in order to be considered a valuable part of the community. They should take care of their employees and the employees might surprise them and start taking care of the community better than they thought they could. Contrary to what you may read or view, times are not tough and there are very few businesses (local or not) that are closing their doors for lack of profitability. Spend your money how you feel like spending it. It's yours. You earned it and if someone wants you to spend it at their business they had better earn it too. | |
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RE: It's pretty complex
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Sorry, your argument in favor of Home Depot doesn't move me too much. Arthur Blank is one of the founders of Home Depot, with a net worth of about 1.4 Billion. He doesn't exactly "live" here -- he owns the Mountain Sky Guest Ranch in Paradise Valley. Looks like he lives in Georgia, but I'm sure he spends a fair amount of time here, like many other billionaires. He gave about $450K to local area charities last year. Not to say that's not appreciated--thank you very much Arthur. But compared to my net worth, that's the same as if I gave $105 to charity last year, which I did and then some. I'm glad this forum is anonymous in this case, because I am not trying to toot my own horn here, but my local business is giving over $4000 to local charities this year. Let's see, Do you think Home Depot or Arthur Blank will match that proportionally? Home Depot, worth over 38 Billion would give $775 Million. Arthur Blank would give $28 Million, about $27.5 Million more than he did last year. Of course, to be fair, Home Depot has about 2,200 stores in roughly as many communities, so Bozeman's fair share is only $352,000. Still, I am doubting that we'll see that level of local donation from them. This discussion didn't really start out to be about charitable contributions however--it was about where a dollar goes spent at a local business vs. a national chain. And it certainly wasn't about salaries and compensation--its all about supply and demand when it comes to employee compensation. As a person and business owner who spends a fair amount of money at national chains, I can't claim to be "holier than thou", but I do believe it is true that a higher percentage of money spent at a locally-owned business stays in the community longer and benefits more local people. |
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bottom line...
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| Bottom line....price is everything. I don't make a lot of money and I need to make every penny count in these uncertain times. If downtown wants me to shop with them, then they should make their prices competitive enough to draw me in. I'm not going to shop locally out of principal and pay $25 for an item at the powder horn when I can get the exact same item at sportsmans warehouse for $19! Pfffttt..... Money is tight and I don't care if you're local or not....what is the price? | |
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Price is everything?
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I do not agree that price is everything. The reason we have so much cheap junk imported from China is because to many people price IS everything. Price trumps quality, safety, human rights, and product longevity. I think that is a sad commentary on our values. Locally owned businesses DO need to be competitive. However, most downtown businesses don't sell the same products that the big box stores do. You go downtown when you want to find something unique, handmade, or of a higher quality than imported stuff. And yes, sometimes some of us pay a few bucks more for the exact same item that a big box store sells. The original poster was making the point that those few extra dollars spent at a local business may in fact come back to benefit you more than the savings found at a big national chain store. So yep, do what you want with your money. But a lot people enjoy living here because of the local charm, the small-town feel, and the community events. Much of that can be directly attributed to small, locally-owned businesses. And I would much rather pay more for a handcrafted piece of art or furniture that will last a lifetime, than a cheap imported piece from China that will fall apart in a few years, was made with near-slave labor, with a finish I may wonder if it contains lead. You get what you pay for, although sometimes the value (or lack thereof) may not be immediately obvious. |
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Price is everything?
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| bcmontana you have some great points, thanks for contributing to this post! | ||
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RE: bottom line...
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Point being...I don't NEED something unique, handmade or of higher quality. What I NEED are the basics which I can't get in downtown Bozeman. Do I really care how many times my dollar gets circulated in the community...no. What I really care about is how much did it cost and is it what I needed. I'm sorry but wake up and smell the coffee. If I spend a few extra dollars at a downtown buisness rather than buying it at a big box store there is no way that those extra dollars spent are going to help beneifit me in the future. It's simply going to help the downtown business owner buy that new SUV they've been wanting quicker. You are asking the community to spend a few extra dollars to shop downtown Bozeman just out of principal not out of logic. People live in this small mountain town because of the lifestyle. Mountains, rivers, camping, hiking, all of which can be enjoyed without supporting downtown Bozeman. |
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Boohoo...
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Boohoo if downtown businesses start closing their doors. Like I need a $400 pair of sunglasses or a $50 christmas ornament or a $4000 painting. How about downtown starts selling products people need and not want? Remember what "crazy days" USED to be like? Now it's just a feux sale so you can get $5 off a $50 t-shirt. Please.......downtown bozeman....attract the buyer with loss leader items and prices not overpriced merchandise with snobby attitudes. |
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z
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Downtown? More like Towndown!
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| I totally agree with Detector Man. Places downtown are too expensive and can't offer me the same deals as a Big Box store. All that talk about how spending locally keeps the money here is bull. I am trying like hell to keep my head above water here in Bozeman and I don't need some guilt trip from local buisness owners to come and spend my dollar there. Downtown has been overrun people who are not from around here or who are trying to cash in on the heavy pockets of people who do live around here. Hmmm...Am I going to buy a nice couch at Ashly's for $400 or should I go with the $4000 leather bound, cowhide special made from the reclaimed wood of some crappy old barn. BIG DESISION. Should I buy this $30 lamp at Wall Mart? Or maybe I should buy this handcrafted $300 lamp made from dirty old antlers from some dead animal. Get real downtown! Face it if you wanted my dollar you would compete. But it's not my dollar your looking for. You want the dollars of the rich folk who have moved to town. | |
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No one forcing you
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These people who so hate downtown act as if they're being forced to buy from shops there. No one is forcing you to buy anything from local businesses. Also, I really don't see the guilt trip--there advantages and disadvantages to buying locally, and some people here are pointing out the advantages. And bozogirl didn't even limit the discussion to downtown, but even asked for support for other local businesses in addition to those downtown. Sheesh, some folks here need to calm down a little bit. I for one happen to like old barns. If that's not you thing, then buy a particle board table from Ashley's with genuine vinyl simulated woodgrain. Whatever you like. Oh, and the antlers come mainly from live animals who have shed the anltlers naturally, and are then collected where they fell--so they're not from dead animals. I know the $4000 paintings in downtown galleries don't feature "The Heros of NASCAR", so I guess WalMart really is your only choice there. Okay, maybe I need to calm down too, but I just couldn't resist balancing out some of the ignorance here. Have a nice day! |
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RE: No one forcing you
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| My most sincere apology if I touched a nerve here. My attempts with sarcasm can sometimes offend folks and I am sorry for that, but HockyMom has missed my point. "particle board table from Ashley's with genuine vinyl simulated woodgrain” is all I can afford. I would love to buy some expensive, lavish, couch but it is not in my budget. As far as the antler lamps, again my apologies for my lack of knowledge of taxidermy, but again those items are not directed at the people of my income level. I just find them to be ridiculous in concept and price. I also enjoy fine art, but I find myself ordering CM Russell reprints and once again cannot afford the artwork displayed downtown. Thank you for reminding me that there are businesses downtown such as Owenhouse which do offer competitive prices and quality service. However, HockyMom’s comments only enhance my argument that many people and the businesses they run are out of touch with the common folks on Montana. Her comments are snobby and elitist, portraying me as if I am some hillbilly sitting around on bad furniture watching NASCAR. Maybe I am, but to be honest I don’t even like car racing. | ||
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Downtown can be competitive
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Since I own a business downtown I am frustrated by people who think that it is too expensive for them to buy things there. I will readily admit that it can be difficult for downtown businesses to compete strictly on price, and part of this is driven by the city-sized rents that are demanded by downtown landlords. But we try very hard to offer things that are not easily found in big-box stores like service, knowledge of our products, being able to talk with the owner (and possibly negotiate a better price), convenience (especially for those who live near downtown), and products that may not be found in other places. As consumers we tend to forget such things as the value of spending less time, not more time, in a store. I would much rather go to Owenhouse and have someone help me find the right size bolt, and sell me the four I need in less than five minutes rather than get in my car, drive out to the big box DIY store, go in and try to find just what I need, only to find out that I need to buy a bag of 12, when I only wanted 4. No, downtown stores are never going to be able to beat the prices that the big stores can offer. But we will work very hard to earn your business, however much we may be able to get. The big box stores here are very lucky because they can hire people who love living here and like helping their neighbors. We hire these individuals too, but we also may have them over for a barbeque or a beer. We help to create a community, not just a paycheck. Try living in a big city for a while, as I have, and you realize that there is a lot of consumer "stuff" you can do without so long as you have friends and family to share what you do have. And most downtown business owners are not rich and looking to buy a new SUV. That would be the owners of the real estate. Most downtown business owners are your neighbors, just trying to make enough so that they can afford to live in Bozeman, which is admittedly expensive. All that being said, I would really love to see fewer galleries and more stores devoted to daily living needs serving a broader market. |
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RE: Downtown can be competitive
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| I agree with everything that you said and you are likely going to be one of the business people that will continue to be successful. Owenhouse is a great example of a local business that has found a way to cater to the community. I hope that businesses like them remain successful and that there are more like them in Bozeman's future. The employees there are helpful and happy and apparently content with their jobs. I feel good when I spend my money there and they earn every penny of it, but I know that they also don't feel entitled to my business just because they are local. | ||
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anything can happen
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| so, i didnt get to read through everyone's comments, but i think i get the point here. so, my husband is from a small town back east, vermont to be exact. home depot opened 2 years ago and is now closing its' doors due to the lack of business the town is giving it. the residents refuse to spend their hard earned money there and continue to support the 2 little hardware stores that have thrived in their community for decades. if that isnt crazy, i dont know what is. now, i know that this cant happen everywhere, but just thought i'd pass this on since a town and it's people can be an unstoppable force sometimes. so, although it's hard to spend all of your cash locally, even a few bucks here and there go a long way. help out when you can. everyone deserves a chance | |
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RE: anything can happen
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I agree with everyones commments about Owenhouse...I love the store and shop there when I can. Their prices are VERY competitive and their service is top knotch. I think customer service is an old concept and has been beaten into the ground...which is why people shop online. As a consumer if I already know the item or product that I want I could care less about how "great" the customer service is.....what is the price? That is why in this day and age so many people are shopping online. Log on...find your item...plug in your Visa and your out....bing bang boom...next... Customer service online? ha.... I think price trumps everything. Look...I'm all for keeping the money here in town but personally I don't hold customer service or if your a local business on a pedistal. I have a family to provide for and I'm going to squeek every dime out of every dollar that I can. If I can make that happen by shopping at a store in downtown....great....if I'm FORCED to make my dollar go further by shopping at a national chain....it's no skin off my back....just downtowns' I retract my statement about downtown business owners and wanting to buy a new SUV. I understand that we are all just regular folks trying to get by. The one thing that I would ask of downtown is don't give the public a semi-guilt trip of why they should shop downtown. It's a turn off. There are a HANDFULL of buisness that I shop at in downtown but a majority of them I simply can't afford to shop at. |
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RE: anything can happen
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| Bravo for the little town in Vermont! | ||
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RE: Anything can happen
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| For detector man, I am glad that you now understand we are just regular people trying to get by and I am also glad to see that you do some of your shopping downtown (or hopefully other locally owned businesses). Most of us owners don't expect to get ALL of your business, we just want to compete to get a share of your business. And I agree that we, as downtown businesses, shouldn't try to guilt anybody into buying things here. We just don't want customers to assume that downtown is only for the wealthy and to give us a chance to compete for your business. Maybe on a day off you can just walk the downtown (it is only about 6 blocks long) and check out the stores that are there, the products they offer, and the general price point for products. Maybe you will find a store or two that you haven't seen before that might be selling something that you would like. | |
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RE: Anything can happen
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Hopefully the "downtown is snobby" argument is wearing itself out here. Can you really afford the locally made furniture on N 19th, either? Owenhouse, Western Drug, Heeb's, Cactus, Tarantino's, Sack's, banks, motels. . . the list of practical, price competitive businesses goes on and on. The service-and-quality-competitive (or superior) businesses are too many to list. People should shop were it suits them, but typecasting downtown businesses doesn't help anyone. As you concluded, some of them are targeting your business, and some are not. Are there stores downtown that you will never need or be able to afford to shop at? Sure. Do some of them qualify as snobby? Absolutely. But this is also true of the mall, 7th, 19th, 4 corners, Big Sky, and likely to be true of the new development across from the mall. There is no expectation from mall store owners or customers that every visitor would shop at every store, but the variety keeps more & different people coming in. Same goes for downtown. There must be a market for these businesses or they wouldn't keep popping up all over. If they bring people with spending $ to the block to shop, then bring them on. In my opinion, the practical stores are more likely to thrive with high end shops next door than they would be next to empty windows. Off on a tangent, it would be interesting to see a real comparison of traffic density, drive time, time finding a parking spot and distance from the door, as well as steps walked shopping at the Mart vs downtown. I think people would be surprised. Like when someone in line at Costco asks the checker to hold up while they "quick, run" to get that one thing they forgot. It could be 2 blocks there and back! In all my visits to Heeb's I have never heard someone ask to hold the line while they "quick, run" over and get something from the Fish Company. Just a thought. And back to the original point, thanks all for supporting local businesses of your choice wherever we happen to pay rent. |
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Gee...2nd time a comment of mine has been removed
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And LOOK WHO posted after my comment was removed. Pooter, make a note of the posters who "report abuse." Pretty sure they are really the one's abusing the blog. Nothing like being able to shut people up, huh? That's power! |
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Downtown
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