Gravel Pits an abrasive comedy
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It would be awful to live near a gravel pit
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| but...who are these neighbors kidding? They would never have accepted zoning if it regulated any of their activities. Maybe they get together, stop wasting money on the lawyers and buy out the gravel pit owners. If their home values are going to decrease as dramatically as they report, then it would be a wise investment to pay the gravel pits off. | |
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RE: It would be awful to live near a gravel pit
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| i agree. i don't even like driving NEAR those gravel trucks. one rock chip a month on average.. and no, im not following too closely! since when is there so much $$$ in gravel?? exactly how much are they making? should i start digging up my back yard? | ||
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RE: It would be awful to live near a gravel pit
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| FYI -- although not all neighborhoods have been able to organize to this point, there is at least one neighborhood that made exactly such an offer, at the fair market value of the land for residences ($25,000/acre), for 90 acres. The offer was turned down, because the landowner could make much larger profit from mining the gravel. | ||
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they were offering to buy a gravel mine....why would they offer fair market value for houses? thats like making an offer on a house by offering fmv for a tent. And $25 k per acre....must not have been in gallatin county. or it was 20 yrs ago. Maybe....if the pit makes so much money,the pit owner would buy the homes....oh right....the homeowners want $100 k per acre. |
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RE: re:
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sorry - - I mis-wrote -- $25,000 as the median price at that time for vacant land as potential homesites at the time the offer was made. The point being that this is not a disagreement about gravel mine landowners property rights, it is a disagreement about profit margins and community membership/responsibility. Sorry for the mis-writing. |
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"GRAVE PIT MAFIOSO"
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i could care less where these pits are put, "as long as they are not near my home." Yeah... Think about this. These greedy "bus turds" make a FORTUNE $$$ monopolizing the industry. They RUIN people's lives with nothing but DOLLAR $IGN$ in their eyes, and of course go to church on Sunday. (Not to repent of course, my goodness no...) They also flatter themselves making "donations" to the arts in the Gallatin Valley. (Very sophisticated. The "serfs" who serve their interest, of course find art at K-Mart and hang it in their trailers.) Kind of like a rusty penny, you know? (It's still a penny...) In any case, there are some "ordinary" folks who don't appreciate the lives ruined when these guys get busy to make their million$. Only solution I can think of is this: When a pit is approved, there should be ONE STIPULATION: They must be forced to "offer to purchase" at fair market value, ALL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY within a half a mile radius of the "Hell Hole" they plan to create. Anyone want to buy a house within a half mile, to a mile of one of these "Hell Holes?" Let me know, I'll pass on the information. |
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Gravel Pit's
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| If we didn't have gravel pits in Gallatin County,where do you think you'd get gravel for roads and a millon other things gravel is used for??Learn to live with them,they won't be here for ever.Thanks E | |
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RE: the basic business model for the gravel industry
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Let's think this through logically: We need gravel. Gravel pits will be located as close as possible to development (their market), to minimize haul and maximize profit. If development proceeds, (i.e., they produce and sell gravel), the devleopment will grow outward to surround them and they (the gravel pit operations) will need to offer the neighborhood increasing amounts of mitigation of adverse impacts or they become an inappropriate land use. Alternatively, they need to locate only in areas that are intended to be industrial. Most of the pits involved in controversy in Gallatin County have reclamation plans in which the intended future use of the land, as cited by the landowner, is as residential home sites. Therefore, based upon the landowner's intended use of their land, they WANT the surroundings to become residential. This is the basic business model for gravel pits. Conflicts are inherent throughout this model. In order to minimize conflict, when a gravel operation is successful (selling product to support development), it should anticipate a need to (1) increase mitigation of operations (noise, dust, traffic) or (2) move outward when economic factors suggest that they move out. The economic factors that would lead them to move outward from devlopment would be that the land is more valueable to be developed than mined (diminishing reserves (quality or quantity) or increased development value of the land), or that the mitigation needed to remain in that neighborhood is too onerous/expensive. It is only in rare circumstances (such as the JTL pit at Belgrade (which cites gravel reserves sufficient for the Gallatin Valley through 2050) that a gravel operation in a rapidly developing area would anticipate a long-term operation in a single location. It is much more common that any gravel operation that is intending to be in a single location for a long period of time will be located very far out from development. And that business model will only be successful if there is no closer-in competition. It is partly because of the serendipitous location of JTL location -- inside the developing Belgrade / Bozeman / Four Corners triangle -- and their massive reserves that we are in this dilemma. Many of the other operations are trying to shoe-horn into key locations to minimize haul to their markets, thereby maximizing their profit AND their ability to compete with JTL. |
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ELSBETH38 said, "Learn to live with them, they won't be here for ever."
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Elsbeth38 Do you live within a half mile of a gravel pit? Do you understand that residential property is massively devalued when a gravel pit opens up in the neighborhood? (Assuming you "own" property which I doubt, or your real name is "Jill" or "Caroline"...) Do you have a child or live yourself with any heart or lung condidition which might make it physically impossible for you to live near a pit? When these pits move in, they simply need to make a legitimate offer to purchase any and all residential property within a half mile of the border of the pit. Oh, that offer needs to be "FAIR MARKET VALUE." Since these pits are such great neighbors, I'm sure the pit owners won't have any trouble reselling the properties... |
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Permit Creep
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So: when you say "learn to live with them, they won't be here forever," -- what is forever? What neighbors in the Gallatin Gateway Planning Area have found is that once the gravel operation is there, it tends to grow and grow and go on forever -- something those of us trying to co-exist with gravel operations have named "permit creep". In the Gallatin Gateway area, we have a range of situations. The Nuss Pit: Originally permitted as 13.5 acres, till 2001. In 2004, when this pit expanded to 41.2 acres till 2010, the neighbors hated it, but were willing to deal with it. Now the Nuss Pit is applying to permit to 87 acres to 2020. Obviously, in this case, 10 additional years is the neighbors' definition of "forever". The Huttinga Pit: started as 5 acres to 2010, now applying to extend to 48.6 acres to 2020. The Fluke Pit: considered a good example of what should be done -- get in/ get the gravel / get out and reclaimed as quickly as possible. Started at 12.9 acres, to be mined 4/2007 to 6/2010. But the neighbors are getting nervous -- there is now an application to increase the area to 20.6 acres, though they are still saying reclaimed by 6/2010... The Morgan Pit: proposing 2007 to 2017, 53 acres. The 53-acres to be permitted is on a 157-acre parcel of land. Based upon the above evidence of the community, the neighbors adjacent to this pit beileve that they are quite likely to be living next to an 153-acre operation for the next 30 years, and are trying to do everything that they can to avert that. Do you blame them? |
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How much is more then enough?
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What else in Montana gets to run like the gravel industry? Can you get a pistol without a criminal history check? If it takes longer than 3 days will a judge force the seller to release it? How about a doctor. If you want your nose fixed and he has a 3 month waiting list, do you get your judge to jump you to the front of the queue? We need more oil. If there was oil around here shouldn’t everyone put a well and pump, or several, in their front yard. How about a nuclear power station next to the Gallatin., energy independence and it would be great for the economy. All in favor say aye. If you want to mine gravel, feel free, hope that you make a mint. If any part of you money maker crosses into my space, spend money until it goes away. If any of mine are injured in any way, I want your house, your land and your kids collage money. It’s the least you can do. We aren’t second class citizens and this isn’t China (in that pollution is less important that production). So what if we need gravel, we don’t need it all RIGHT NOW! There are more than enough pits to produce the gravel that a slowing economy needs. You have as much right to mine gravel as I have to start a sub-division. In other words; you have the opportunity to engage in the process. No promises. The fact is, the Open Cut Mining Act was written by industry shills. It is not Holy Writ, superseding every other law that governs heavy, pollution creating, water wasting, industry. It is way out of date and it’s headed for a fall when the legislature gets to it. |
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