Racism ain't dead, just concealed....

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Lets talk figuratively for a second. What chance does a snow ball have in hell? Take those statistics and put them into the case of John Lebrum. First of all it is clear that he didn't kill Wright. So why he would get the max sentence makes absolutely no sense. However, it makes sense that a BLACK man would get the max sentence for killing a white man in a 90% white community. That means 10% of the community is African American, Asian, Indian, Mexican, ect ect. Do you honestly believe that a Black man arrested by white cops, prosecuted by a white DA, sentenced by a white judge, really had a chance to receive anything but the max? Now you are probably shocked, saying that YOU would never have thought of something like that. I was at work when we saw the newspaper cover story about Lebrum, a white co-worker grabbed the paper quickly scanned the head lines and then dropped the paper yelling, “F##k yeah, the n####r got the max!” You really think that a white DA is going to allow black on white crime? Probably sitting at home saying to themselves, this ain't Compton, I won't stand for it. Yeah, robbery is bad, he deserves jail time, but honestly I am surprised a lynching group didn't turn out to hang him for committing black on white crime. But why would they? The judge seemed like a one man lynching mob by himself.
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tags: racism, lebrum, john, police + add tags
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posted on Wed, May 14, 2008 07:17 PM
last updated on Tue, May 20, 2008 04:53 AM
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This was a clear cut, text book case of ... byBozemaniteNo314231 month ago (3 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
...drug's, alcohol, money and other criminal activities that led to homicide. The maximum sentence was the right sentence.
RE: This was a clear cut, text book case of ... byjohnbrownraider1 month ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
Not so, the other charges against him were dropped....technically. So he should have been sentenced to what he was charged with, not with other factors playing in. The judge sentencing Brandon Miller said, that he was the only one to blame for his murder, well obviously the judge in Lebrums case disagrees because he sentenced him not what he was pleading guilty for, but rather the fact that someone was killed, and he was a suspect. Technically he didn't even rob he of that much money, he robbed about an once of cocaine....but that doesn't mater because it is an illegal drug and never would have been reported anyway....only about a couple hundred dollars. A couple hundred dollars worth 50 years in jail? Only if the suspect is black the victim is white, and the white victim dies. Yet the judge shouldn't have looked at that because in reality the charges were dropped. Because the police committed a crime in arresting him and denying him a lawyer not a technicality.
The lesson is... byBozemaniteNo314231 month ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
...you're just as guilty when you go along for the ride.
RE: The lesson is... byjohnbrownraider1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
No, your still going off the fact that Miller killed someone....in the Lebrum case supposedly the homicide charges were dropped....you make your case...were they?? or like racism were they just concealed??
Racism? byArt1 month ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Johnbrownraider: Would you have been as outraged had a white guy received the same sentence? Could this have been a difficult decision on the part of the judge, knowing that there could be claims of racism?
Hopefully, your coworker who made the comment has a mindset that is 180 degrees different than the judge. And you have my sympathy for having to work with such a person.
The sentence was within the legally allowed limits. It would make no sense if the sentence was beyond what is allowed. I just don't see the evidence that substantiates the claim of racism on the part of the judge.
RE: Racism? byjohnbrownraider1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Lets think of this reasonably...all the homicide charges were dropped...stricken from the books...they never should have brought up....like they never existed....so they should not have played a role in sentencing....he should have been sentenced for what he did was convicted of felony robbery. Which unless he stole more than $500 dollars it wasn't even a felony robbery. Lebrums lawyer sold him short. The prosecutors never had a case once the judge threw out the confession, he should have taken it to court and never bargained out of it.
RE: Racism? byjohnbrownraider1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Oh, to answer the racism part would I have been mad if it were a white guy? I might, if it were a white guy in a 90% minority community. If you don't see the evidence of racism try this. Go look at all the sentencing for Felony Robbery in Bozeman look at the sentencing, see if a majority of them are around 40 years. I can guarantee you they are not. Now you say, but he helped kill someone...but the charges were dropped. It would be like OJ Simpson getting life in jail for a minor crime and then people saying that it was because he killed someone....he was acquitted though. Lebrum shouldn't have gotten the max. As for my co-worker This is Montana people might not be racist but still say racist things, something you have to live with and above.
Racism--More byArt1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Why is there a minimum and why is there a maximum sentence for crimes? It can only be due to the circumstances associated with a crime. If the judges sentence stayed within the limits, I don't think racism can be proved. And I think based on the circumstances of the crime, it didn't exist.
I think it's probably the case that we all wondered if race played a factor in the sentencing but I'm really of the opinion that the judge opted not to take the easy way out, by giving a lighter sentence because the person is a minority.
On the last comment about having to live with racist comments-- I don't agree and don't think we have to. At the least we can make it known we aren't listening to those comments.
RE: Racism--More byjohnbrownraider1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Like I said before, those circumstances shouldn't have been brought into the trial since they were supposedly dropped
Racism is now just under the surface, but still alive and well bydclxvinoise1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
You're absolutely right. Racism isn't dead, nor will it probably ever fullydie. Racism is now bubbling under the surface, while people who still hold racial prejudice refuse to admit it. The unfortunate thing is that it is in our nature as human beings to judge others based on incredibly shallow criteria like race. Funnily enough, the loudest voices claiming that racism against African Americans is dead are typically white people. Then you see these same people getting up in arms over Obama's "typical white person" remark, which is incredibly hypocritical. The simple fact of the matter is that about 99% of white people have no idea what it's like to live in a world where people judge you based on the color of your skin. Based on this fact, they fail to understand why black people are still angry. I got into a debate with a guy recently and he felt that they should just "get over it". We are talking about nearly 400 years of strife and misery and he just expects people to get over it. The civil rights issues happened a mere 40 years ago. Racism didn't end there. Many people were not afforded the same kind of opportunities, both in job and education simply because of the color of their skin and the fact that the people in charge carried blatant racial prejudice. This has definitely lessened in recent years and it is made obvious by the fact that we now have a black man as a serious contender for President. However, racism still boils under the surface especially in places like Montana where, as you put it, the population is 90% white people. As for the case in question, I don't think there is any way to undeniably prove that this man you refer to got the max sentence simply because he was black. However, based on the history of racism in our country, I can certainly respect and understand why any black person would be defensive and highly suspect of it.
Showboating byjohnbrownraider1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
The proceedings in the court room never needed to happen. Every person in that room knew that Lebrum was getting the max. Every person in their heart including the judge believe, way before they ever stepped into that court, before they heard any arguments by the lawyers that Lebrum was guilty. Have you ever watched the move "To Kill a Mockingbird." No matter what Lebrum could have said, to the judge and the community he was guilty. The man in the movie, like Lebrum was guilty, guilty of being colored and in a courtroom facing a white judge. In the same way that the Nazi's or communist Russia used to have phony trials to condemn prisoners. Every person in those Nazi, Russian, and Gallatin court house knew the out come before the gavel ever fell.
Not an issue of Racism byMontana0071 month ago (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The charge of robbery was arranged through a plea agreement that Lebrum actively negotiated with his attorney. He was aware of the potential outcome when he made this arrangement with the county attorney. This plea agreement allowed him to roll the dice and take his chances with sentencing rather than running the risk of being convicted of kidnapping, which has a much more severe penalty. There are people that argue racism played a role in sentencing, but I'm under the impression that criminal activity is what resulted in his sentence. In my opinion, no matter the color of skin, there should be little sympathy for people who are involved in this type of activity. I don't want racism here or anywhere, but don't want people to be able to use it as an excuse for their actions either. That only perpetuates the problem. These guys all had more opportunity in front of them than most and chose to pursue a path contrary to what is acceptable and must live with the consequences of the crime.
RE: Not an issue of Racism bydclxvinoise1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
There really is no way to ultimately prove one way or another whether this guy got the max sentence based on race. If racism were truly dead, then the answer would be obvious. However, it is still very much alive, so there really is no way to prove whether or not the decision was based on race. I would certainly hope that it isn't.
RE: Not an issue of Racism byjohnbrownraider1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
The fact of the matter is this. The Bozeman police and local media do a good job of portraying young colored men. I give an example, before the MSU scandal another man was charged with the same thing, bring cocaine from down south into Bozeman. What about the two men who brought 5 million dollars of E into the country? Front page of the chronicle? No, buried in the back. Yet when young colored men commit crimes it is splashed on the front page. I bet if you took a poll of the gallatin county before the deal 90% would say that Lebrum was guilty. What I am getting at is this, no matter whether he took the stand, or rolled the dice and cut a deal, in 90% of the people in this county he was guilty before he ever walked into the court room.
RE: Not an issue of Racism byMontana0071 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Johnbrownraider,

How many people were known to be killed and/or kidnapped in the other drug transactions that you mentioned in your post? For the sake of this discussion, I'm not referring to death as a result of drug use, but homicide directly related to the individuals brokering the product. I think the reason Miller, Lebrum, and Wright made the front page of the paper here was the alleged kidnapping, homicide, tampering with evidence, and the association of those activities with Montana State University in conjunction with the drugs. Even if 90% of people felt Lebrum or Miller or Wright were guilty before they entered the courtroom that doesn't mean that they were racially prejudging any of them or incorrect in their assertion of guilt. It should be noted that there are a lot of people around here who are less than sympathetic about the death of Wright too. I don't think that their lack of sympathy has much to do with his skin color, but is in large part due to his involvement in crime. I feel bad for his family and the grief that they experience, but it appears that he was involved in something that he knew could result in a violent end. They would be more sympathetic if they felt he was an innocent bystander. I truly don't think that this case was an issue of skin color and arguing such does little to help resolve the racial issues that do exist.
RE: Not an issue of Racism bychopsui1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Montana007,

that is a good point, but not the point that I have been trying to make. I have tried to avoid Mr. Wright just because its a open wound for his family, and out of respect for the dead and what not. But any way, the fact of the matter is, the way the police conducted it from the start, denying him a lawyer, to the way everybody knew that he was guilty way before it ever went to sentencing. You knew that he was getting max, there couldn't be another way, I know that for the most part the judge was within the guide lines, yet, the guide lines were a set of rules set out for many different circumstances, and the fact that Wright died should never been a issue at the sentencing when it obviously was, and was a obvious reason he got the max.
pppfffffffftttttthhhhhhh bytiredofbeingjudged1 month ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
if everyone is so racist here, these guys wouldn't have been brought in to help out the msu athletics dept in the first place..
the 'lynch mob' would have been waiting to greet them. and the mob would not have waited for these men to commit crimes, before persecuting them.
RE: pppfffffffftttttthhhhhhh byjohnbrownraider1 month ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
I never said that everybody is racist, but can you honestly deny that racism exist in Montana? You have the Montana Militia, Aryan Nations, Freeman, various splinter groups from larger white supremacist gangs all HEADQUARTERED in Montana. Did you know that skin heads attempted to explode a pipe bomb in Bozeman? Or that another skin head gang ran through a Billings park in an ethnic cleansing...How about the fact that when the BLACK candidate for president showed up in Montana a man held a sign for the website "gettherope.com" a white supremacist website. Did you know that Montana has more white gangs than any other ethnic gangs, that includes natives, blacks, or mexican. Also Cali, Montana, and Idaho are the leaders in white supremacist gangs, in that order. American white gangs are only matched in cruelty and violence by their German counter parts. Come on man, I never said everybody was racist but you really can't say nobody is. Is Rodney King, MLK's marches, all the other racial issues going on, you can put on rose tinted glasses and say the world is rosie, but not all of us can buy those glasses.
RE: pppfffffffftttttthhhhhhh bytiredofbeingjudged1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
im sure you can dig up a radical group anywhere, if you look hard enough..
my point is, race was not an issue in this case. the skinheads were not at the trial/sentencing.
give us some evidence that the judge, attorneys, investigators, and anyone else related to this case are involved in an aryan pride/skinhead group and i'll be convinced.
otherwise your statements just seem to be propaganda.
Racism byArt1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
johnbrownraider: I can't say with certainty that it was not an issue of racism, because I am not in the head of the judge. On your post titled Showboating you are indicating what people were thinking.
I agree with ddvoinse there there is simply no way of knowing. Meaning there isn't evidence to state with certainty that the sentence was based on racism.
And again, if the sentence was within the allowed legal paremeters for the crime committed, and not in excess of it, I don't know how racism can be claimed.
tired ofbeing judged: I don't know about you, but I don't think it's a sign of a lack or racism to bring a minority here, especially if the motivation is to help out the sports teams. To me, that's kind of "using" people.
RE: Racism byjohnbrownraider1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Ah, another good point, but I would counter with this. If you live in a state that allows parents to spank their kids, and one day your kids leaves his socks on the floor after you asked him not to, and you take them into the back room and beat the living hell out of him, that is by law completely with in your rights, would you say the punishment fit the crime or maybe, just maybe a little harsh??
RE: Racism byjohnbrownraider1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Also, the point of the school is irrelevant to the argument. Every person should be judge on their actions. The judge had nothing to do with the school bring in black athletes. The school, more pointedly the athletic department, and the coaches run a business, their business is to put the best product out of the field. Whether it is black, white, or green with pink dots. The school can bring anybody they choose to MSU the judge has no say in it. Matter of fact the community has no say in it, to a point. The coaches recruit the athletes they best see fit the teams needs. If I were to say to you that your city there is no racism because of black professional athletes, you would laugh because you know you and the majority of people in your city have no say what so eve what or who the teams bring in.
. byMontana0071 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
.
Different than "To Kill a Mockinbird" byMontana0071 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Lebrum plead guilty. It was not a matter of people thinking that before he went into the sentencing hearing. It was not a trial. He admitted guilt and plead guilty to robbery. He knew what the parameters of the sentence were prior to entering the plea agreement and prior to pleading guilty. Maybe there could be more dialgue about this if he plead not guilty, was questionably found guilty by trial, maintained his innocence, and was then given the maximum sentence. If you say that your guilty it's pretty tough to convince people otherwise.
RE: Different than "To Kill a Mockinbird" byjohnbrownraider1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Ok, here is another example of justice served to harsh...Randy Weaver of Ruby Ridge. The man was guilty of a gun crime. A felony. He resisted arrest, the long arm of the law came to get him. In fact to get to him they killed his son, wife, shot him, and his friend. The police countered that Randy resisted arrest, surveillance showed that all the family packed guns. They also contested that Randy's 13yr old son(believe age is right) discharged his weapon at an officer first. However later was discovered that the officer cut him down as he was fleeing the scene after discharging his weapon. Yes Mr. Weaver was a criminal, a felon, the law had every right, with in their rights to go after him. All the people who died...they were harboring a fugitive. Once again the law had legal right to go through them to get to him. The law had every right to throw the book at Lebrum...my question is this was the motive for throwing the book at him? Lebrum and Weaver, both criminals, law came after them, the law took too harsh a stand though. What was the reason the judge gave him the max? Because he robbed someone? Or because he was involved in a murder that wasn't even an issue?
Nobody snubs the law!!!! byjohnbrownraider1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Listen, nobody snubs the law, as much as you think you have or do...nobody does. Lebrum thought he got off the homicide charges but never realized the got sentenced for the homicide with out ever getting sentenced for the charge. Mr. Wrights family proved that point. When his uncle stood up and said that Lebrum deserved the max because he got off the homicide on a technicality...Wrights mom said that he played a big role in her sons death, this was all at the sentencing, for a robbery charge....sounds more like a homicide charge to me...What they told me is lebrum deserves the max for one crime because he didn't get charged with another.....not because the crime he was getting sentenced for was horrible...but rather the crime he wasn't getting sentenced for was horrible...come on. Randy Weaver thought he snubed the law hiding in the hills, Lebrum thought he snubbed the law by now getting charged....but nobody snubs the law.
John Brown Raider byberrymountain1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Remember, the one man lynching mob also sentenced a white man to the max, for sexually abusing his daughter in Manhattan a few years ago. "Teeters Case," and that fellow drummed up some major legal representation, taking it all the way to the Montana Supreme Court. He lost. (as he should have!)

I agree with many things you have stated, and am disgusted that anyone would use the "word." I also was uncomfortable with the LARGE FRONT PAGE COLOR PHOTOS in the Chronicle.

John Brown Raider, I am also disgusted that a U.S. Citizen named Reverend Wright had some pretty harsh things to say about "white" people. The reverend's comments have done much damage to our country, and opened many wounds on all sides.

I believe all U.S. Citizens should be treated equally and fairly. I did not sit on this jury, and only read what was written in the paper. I am sad for all involved.
RE: John Brown Raider byjohnbrownraider1 month ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Ok first of all, the man is a judge, of course he is going to sentence white guys, and some do horrible crimes, are charged with them and do time for them. The differenc