Stay Strap in school....

Over the past couple of years there has been a disturbing trend of young kids that decide that bringing a gun and spraying down their classmates and anyone else that happens to get in the way. Now remember I am talking strictly for college not high school Why because most of the time HS kids can't legally own a gun.
I think that you should, be able to bring a fire arm onto a college campus, if you do certain things first.
1. Have a concealed weapons permit
2. Inform the college that you will be carrying a weapon on campus. And get a permit which to get you must take another stricter course in firearm safety.
3. Only be able to use it under very strict guidelines. Only when you face imminent death.

Your question is why should these irresponsible kids be allowed to bring guns onto a college campus? Because the colleges of America have shown us over and over again that a individual with a variety of legal firearms can illegally and very easily bring them onto a college campus and kill, mane, and wound many many of his/her unarmed classmates or fellow humans before the college police or any police force can mobilize.
The colleges are for the most part unable to properly defend their students from attacks and can not guarantee their safety. If the colleges could promise you that if a gunman would not make it far on that campus then I would feel safe leaving my firearm at my house. Until that day, I want to be able to "stay strap" because I don't know you, or what kind of weirdo you are.
But in all the school shooting that I know of, the shooters for the most part committed suicide, after leaving their deadly trail of destruction and the police simply helped the coroner carry out the bodies.
The reason for this is that yes there is a chance more school shooting will happen. But answer this question first, what would you rather have, two people get into a argument, break the rules and both pull guns and someone gets shot. Yes that is sad, but what is more sad is a lone gunman walking into a room and shooting 24 unarmed people.

I can honestly say that I would rather die by getting shot and at least having the ability to fire back rather than die by being shot while I am hiding under a desk because I can't bring a butter knife to school with me. Where are the police officers? Waiting out side yelling into a mike they got the place surrounded, waiting for the gun shots to stop so they can go in...
I believe that we have a right to feel safe, if not we should be able to have a weapon to defend yourself in a time of crisis. The schools of America have not done the job of protecting the students. Like after hurricane Katrina. The city of N.O. asked for citizens to turn in their guns. The police then left the people to the mercy of the mobs and gangs who didn't turn in their guns. The police force did not have the man power to defend the law abiding citizens. Same is here, the schools ask us to not brings guns into a college campus, then don't have the means to defend against a imminent attack, and I say imminent because I am sure that another person will try it. After that they want to hold a candle light because 20 plus people died because they purposely placed you into a situation, refused you the right to defend yourself then purposely didn't properly defend you either.
I think that there will be more shooting, but at the end of the day its about whether you die fighting back or under a desk because the authorities refuse you both protection and the means to defend yourself. In recap, yes some people will get through the system, there are bad apples no matter how hard you try, but with the proper application process and special classes that are further in depth and tighter restrictions on when it is appropriate to use your weapon, I think that we can feel much safer.
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tags: guns, school, rights, stay, strap
posted on Fri, Jul 04, 2008 12:34 PM
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Well... I agree byberrymountain3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
There are no specific "classroom requirements" in Montana, to obtain a Concealed Weapons Permit. But they do want you to prove knowledge of firearms and safety.

A thorough background check by the sheriff's department is required in Montana.

Gallatin County Sheriff's Department are very efficient, with a turnaround time of about 2 weeks from application/fee, to notice of approval. Then you return to the sheriff's deparment to pick up your permit. I am legal in 3 states. I have required classroom and range time, as required by other states.
Montana Code 2007 byberrymountain3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
45-8-321. Permit to carry concealed weapon. (1) A county sheriff shall, within 60 days after the filing of an application, issue a permit to carry a concealed weapon to the applicant. The permit is valid for 4 years from the date of issuance. An applicant must be a United States citizen who is 18 years of age or older and who holds a valid Montana driver's license or other form of identification issued by the state that has a picture of the person identified. An applicant must have been a resident of the state for at least 6 months. Except as provided in subsection (2), this privilege may not be denied an applicant unless the applicant:
(a) is ineligible under Montana or federal law to own, possess, or receive a firearm;
(b) has been charged and is awaiting judgment in any state of a state or federal crime that is punishable by incarceration for 1 year or more;
(c) has been convicted in any state or federal court of a crime punishable by more than 1 year of incarceration or, regardless of the sentence that may be imposed, a crime that includes as an element of the crime an act, attempted act, or threat of intentional homicide, violence, bodily or serious bodily harm, unlawful restraint, sexual abuse, or sexual intercourse or contact without consent;
(d) has been convicted under 45-8-327 or 45-8-328, unless the applicant has been pardoned or 5 years have elapsed since the date of the conviction;
(e) has a warrant of any state or the federal government out for the applicant's arrest;
(f) has been adjudicated in a criminal or civil proceeding in any state or federal court to be an unlawful user of an intoxicating substance and is under a court order of imprisonment or other incarceration, probation, suspended or deferred imposition of sentence, treatment or education, or other conditions of release or is otherwise under state supervision;
(g) has been adjudicated in a criminal or civil proceeding in any state or federal court to be mentally ill, mentally defective, or mentally disabled and is still subject to a disposition order of that court; or
(h) was dishonorably discharged from the United States armed forces.
(2) The sheriff may deny an applicant a permit to carry a concealed weapon if the sheriff has reasonable cause to believe that the applicant is mentally ill, mentally defective, or mentally disabled or otherwise may be a threat to the peace and good order of the community to the extent that the applicant should not be allowed to carry a concealed weapon. At the time an application is denied, the sheriff shall, unless the applicant is the subject of an active criminal investigation, give the applicant a written statement of the reasonable cause upon which the denial is based.
(3) An applicant for a permit under this section must, as a condition to issuance of the permit, be required by the sheriff to demonstrate familiarity with a firearm by:
(a) completion of a hunter education or safety course approved or conducted by the department of fish, wildlife, and parks or a similar agency of another state;
(b) completion of a firearms safety or training course approved or conducted by the department of fish, wildlife, and parks, a similar agency of another state, a national firearms association, a law enforcement agency, an institution of higher education, or an organization that uses instructors certified by a national firearms association;
(c) completion of a law enforcement firearms safety or training course offered to or required of public or private law enforcement personnel and conducted or approved by a law enforcement agency;
(d) possession of a license from another state to carry a firearm, concealed or otherwise, that is granted by that state upon completion of a course described in subsections (3)(a) through (3)(c); or
(e) evidence that the applicant, during military service, was found to be qualified to operate firearms, including handguns.
(4) A photocopy of a certificate of completion of a course described in subsection (3), an affidavit from the entity or instructor that conducted the course attesting to completion of the course, or a copy of any other document that attests to completion of the course and can be verified through contact with the entity or instructor that conducted the course creates a presumption that the applicant has completed a course described in subsection (3).
(5) If the sheriff and applicant agree, the requirement in subsection (3) of demonstrating familiarity with a firearm may be satisfied by the applicant's passing, to the satisfaction of the sheriff or of any person or entity to which the sheriff delegates authority to give the test, a physical test in which the applicant demonstrates the applicant's familiarity with a firearm.

History: En. Sec. 1, Ch. 759, L. 1991; amd. Sec. 1, Ch. 408, L. 1995; amd. Sec. 3, Ch. 581, L. 1999.
My bad, miss use of wording... byjohnbrownraider3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I was referring to the course that you are required to take to obtain the concealed weapon permit. From a certified instructor, that is how I understood it to be anyway.
RE: My bad, miss use of wording... byberrymountain3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
No bad wording. You are not required to take any one specific course from a certified instructor, but do need to meet certain criteria. There are requirements which will provide the education required, like the "Montana Hunter's Safety Course." See 3a for better wording.

There's several ways to achieve the requirements. If you've taken Hunter's Safety, you should be good to go.

Good post. I acknowledge and respect your concern, in regard to this public safety issue.
wow bychopsui3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
ok idea
a byBike Ryder3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Whatever happened to people using their fists to get out of jams ?
Guns do not need to be on college campuses
RE: "Using their fists..." byberrymountain3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Yes, you are correct. Most people do not resort to using deadly weapons, in any situation of disagreement.

I believe JBR is "posting" about those who murder numbers of people in/on college campus', shopping malls, etc. Those murdered victims, had no way to fight for their life or defend themselves. If there were more responsible people who had a, "concealed weapon permit(s)" I believe these murderous gunmen might be taken out a bit sooner, and lives saved. These permits are not handed out like candy.

Last year a gunman in Utah went on a shooting spree in a mall. If it were not for an off duty police officer, who was carrying a concealed weapon, the number of people murdered likely would have increased greatly.

I think this is a very good post.
RE: a bydanie0063 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Fists work great when you're in a fist fight. If someone shoots at you or your loved ones, well then that's a different story...

Great post, JBR.
a byBike Ryder3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
you have a better chance of getting killed crossing the street everyday than by a shooter at a college campus or mall. Fact
RE: a bydanie0063 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Perhaps, but I'm not pushing my bad luck. In 1994 I was mugged at knife point while walking home from work. When the state I lived in at the time passed the conceal carry law, I signed up and have carried almost every day since...And I'm a fairly politically liberal person!
In 2000 we were camping in ID. To make a long story short, a guy broke into our camper in the middle of the night demanding money and making physical threats. I grabbed my G23 and held him while my wife went to the camp host for help (no cell phone service).
When it gets down to it, I am thankful that right to bear arms laws exist or I (or my family) may not be here right now.
RE: a byjohnbrownraider3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
You have a better chance to get killed cross the street than by a plane flying into your 100 story plus building......but we still make sure it doesn't happen again......fact
RE: a byBike Ryder3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
100 story plus building.....what state are we talking about here ?
The media has introduced too much fear into your life.....Im sorry for that.
RE: a byjohnbrownraider3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
You said that I had a better chance getting killed crossing the street than dying in a school shooting....well I stated that you had a better chance dying by crossing the street than in a terrorist attack like 911
a byBike Ryder3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Paranoia will destroya
RE: a bydanie0063 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
If it weren't for paranoia my family and I probably would have been seriously injured or dead 8 years ago.
Guns for All and All for Guns! bySuperJames3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Good guys do great things with guns! Nice Post JBR.
Certainty in a un certain world...... byjohnbrownraider3 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Hey I might be paranoid, but with reasonable cause, plus I am not dying hiding under a desk screaming...You don't have to own, want or even like but I think that it is my right to carry my gun with me, and I will stay strap until the end of time...
RE: Certainty in a un certain world...... byBike Ryder3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
I own 12 guns.... you are paraniod...get ovet it
"paranoia" or "opportunity" byberrymountain3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Concealed weapons permits are a good thing. Just take the classes, as you must know the law.

If someone threatens to beat you up for ANY reason, or even verbally threatens to kill you, you CANNOT/may not pull out a lethal weapon or gun and shoot them. Claiming they "might have killed you" will guarantee you spend the rest of your life in prison if you kill them. If you use a deadly weapon of any type and cause bodily injury you may as well say goodbye to your life as you know it.

Though you do not have to take any one specific firearms class offered as a prerequisite in Montana, (you can also take as an example "Hunter's Safety) I recommend you do take it from a qualified instructor. This class has little to do with loading/aiming/shooting though that will be covered.

Carrying a concealed weapon is extremely serious, and not to be taken lightly. It's not like getting a driver's license or CDL.

I'm a bit concerned after re-reading your post. Do not think or believe for one minute, getting a concealed weapons permit will magically present an opportunity for you to become a "hero" if that's truly what you are looking for. The chances of encountering another person who is truly going to threaten your life, is almost nil. In Montana, there are few murders per year. I'm talking about the entire state, not the county or Bozeman. When they do happen they are not usually random acts.

You know the relationship between the last murder victim (your own post) in the county, and the alleged/unproven murderer who was sentenced to 99 years for burglary. The two men knew each other, and were also partner's in drug dealings. Not a random thing at all. Both were already criminals prior to one murdering the other.

By the way. I have a large gun safe, and 1 small safe. I personally know most every reputable dealer in this county, some in the state. These guys have been around for years, and in many cases generationally. In any case, it is interesting that the term "Stay Strap" is unknown to me. Are you referencing a strap that attaches to your body, concealing a weapon under your clothing?

Most who carry concealed weapons, do NOT carry them on their body. They carry them in cases, and even brief cases. Are you carrying a weapon around on your body with what you call a "Stay Strap?" You have no concealed weapons permit? What is really going on here. Is there more to this post than simply "I am consisdering applying for, and receiving a concealed weapons permit."? Something tells me you already are carrying a concealed weapon, and this is a VERY bad idea, for very good reasons.
RE: "paranoia" or "opportunity" bydanie0063 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
Berrymountain, you are misinformed about the notion of drawing a weapon in defense. It really depends on the situation. My case was throughly investigated and I was cleared of any wrongdoing. Our assailant is still in prison.

I carry a Kahr PM9 with an inside-the-waistband holster on the lower part of my back almost every day. I've found that to be the most comfortable and easiest to conceal.
Guns in Montana are used PRIMRILY for Hunting and Fishing byberrymountain3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Unless you are involved in a LEGAL business activity, which routinely requires you to transport valuable items...I am not certain why you would consider a concealed weapon, legal or otherwise. Sounds like you have no real interst in the Concealed Weapon Permit requirements.

Your post: "If the colleges could promise you that if a gunman would not make it far on that campus then I would feel safe leaving my firearm at my house. Until that day, I want to be able to "stay strap" because I don't know you, or what kind of weirdo you are."

First of all, you imply everyone is a "weirdo" that is reading your post. That sounds a bit judgmental. We may all be different, not agree on much, but that apparently means we are "weirdo's?"

I think you carry a concealed weapon, and I don't think you are doing it legally. That's what I am getting from your comments. Let me know if I am off base.
Calm your fears Berrymountain..... byjohnbrownraider3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I do not carry a weapon with me, because A. I don't have a concealed weapon. B. I can't carry it on a school ground right now even if I did, so no point in carrying it because I try not to put myself into situations that I might need one, ie hanging around less than reputable places or hanging around bars too much.

I usually work and then go home and play video games or lift weights. However, I do keep a pistol at my house in my bedroom for protection, it is of course not loaded but the clip is right handed just the same....

The term "stay strap" comes from a slang term to keep a fire arm on you. I don't know the origins but I know that if you tell someone that you are "strap" you are saying that you are armed...usually, but not necessarily a firearm...

I like how people jump to conclusions about my writing. Saying I must be this because I believe such and such, whatever it is that I write on. Not so, I don't smoke cigarettes but if you really want to smoke a cig then go ahead...whatever it is....

The truth of the matter is that growing up my dad always said that every American should own a gun, he didn't because he had young children in the house and he thought the risk of a firearm out weighed the risk of a intruder.

Finally, I didn't call everyone a weirdo, but implied that I don't know you, and you don't know me...therefore I shall plan for the worst and hope for the best. I was referring to people who do school shooting, as the weirdos, but I can't tell the school shooter from John Doe until he opens up firing...so once again, I shall plan for the worst and hope for the best...

PS. Its not that I can't get a concealed weapons permit its just I can't get up at 8am on Saturday to go take the class...I actually have signed up three separate occasions only to be called into work or wake up late....
On a further note... byjohnbrownraider3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I wasn't saying I do carry weapons onto a school ground, just that it would be nice to because I don't know, and they can't guarantee that all 10,000 students are rational sound minded people. I am not saying they are going to do a shooting even if they aren't rational, but I am willing to bet my life on it? I would rather not....
A little brush up on hip hop culture...... byjohnbrownraider3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Berrymountain, you definitely need to hang out with a younger crowd and get some more immersed in the younger generations culture...you say you have kids, they should know what most of these terms mean if they listen to any hip hop. But never the less I shall throw a few of the more common ones out just for kicks and giggles then you can go baffle all your friends with your urban cultural knowledge....


Stay strap - armed with a weapon
Iced out- Wearing a lot of jewelry
Grills- Gold or platinum teeth
Hood rat- Girl from the hood, usually a derogatory term toward woman, like slut.
Homie- friend
B- slang for homie....like "Whats up B?" Whats up homie....
Fly- cool
Tripp'in- freaking out
Busta- fake, fool, negative.
Cheddar- Pronounced "chedda" Money
RE: A little brush up on hip hop culture...... bycowgirlmedic3 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
LOL! This reply cracks me up!
BM Confused Once Again bydanie0063 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Berrymountain,

I took the class at Bill's Gun Shop in Robbinsdale, MN with a highly respected instructor (no name mentioned for fear of stalking/retribution). Since I didn't live in MT at the time, I didn't take a class from someone around here. Shame on me.

Berrymountain's words - "wonder if the person who shot the fellow on Huffine Lane, was also "stay strap." Real nice. This is tough boy, gutter slang you are attempting to introduce under the guise of, you are so worried about your safety."

Stay strap is not necessarily "gutter slang". I was just pointing out yet another uninformed statement from your fingers/brain.

Since when is it illegal to have a firearm in your vehicle if it is correctly stowed? Since when is it illegal to carry a weapon on your person if properly licensed? Re-read the regs please.